Other groups that feature prominently include autochthonous Igbo groups as well as the Edo of Benin kingdom; the former were a allied with the Obàtálá group and had their influence diminished by queen Moremi, this group is postulated to be related to the ancient Igbo-Ukwu bronze casters of the Nri kingdom in south-eastern Nigeria that also had a similar but older concept of divine kingship as Ife as well as an equally older naturalist bronze-casting art tradition from which Ife derived some of its motifs for displaying royal regalia.
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I don't think the "Igbo" people here are in any way related to the current day Igbo people. Your source is not a Nigerian and it's very very easy for outsiders to mix them up.
i understand there's some considerable debate on whether the 'igbo' group in the traditional history of ife's classical period are related to the modern igbo, i think the basis for suzanne's theory linking the two is partly based on the stylistic similarities between the art of ife and igbo ukwu; since she's primarily focused on art history, and given that it was the only major bronze casting society that was older and contemprenous with Ife in the region at the time the latter's art tradition emerged.
she based this on the presence of similar motifs in ife and igbo ukwu art (the facial marks, janus figure vomiting an axe, equestrian staffs, bird figures with snake wings, animals with royal regalia, etc) , as well as the discovery of ife glass beads at igbo ukwu sites. She also cites similar arguments made by Nigerian historians like Ade Obayemi, Ikem Okoye and Titi Euba, who argue for the presence of igbo-groups among the diverse groups that made up classical ife's population, highlighting shared ritual centers like the Iwinrın Grove, which is also known as “Igbo Igbo (the Igbo Grove), and the Esinmirin Stream (where Ife Queen Moremi made her offering after unmasking the Igbo) is called Omi Igbo (the Igbo water [Esinmirin omi Igbo]).”
It should ofcurse be noted that ethnicities are a highly fluid social concept, so we have no firm reason to assume our modern understanding of "igbo" or "yoruba" corresponds with what existed in the 8th-15th century when these artworks were being made, we can only use modern groups and their associated languages in the places where these artworks were found as proxies for describing the populations of these old sites which must have been heterogenous, just like their modern sucessors. (This is also something she acknowledges)
we are afterall, dealing with oral histories recorded in the early 20th century, and while these may indeed preserve early historical records fairly well, they could also be altered to reflect changes in social organisation and identity, which would explain the use of modern social identities in significantly older historical narratives
some could consider all this evidence as circumstancial, and Suzanne acknowledges that the identity of Ife's igbo population is still a matter of lively debate, but her arguments should probably not be dismissed outright for now. (the link between ife and the edo of benin for example, is equally tenous and not well recorded but the similarities of both society's art traditions are evident)
"
Other groups that feature prominently include autochthonous Igbo groups as well as the Edo of Benin kingdom; the former were a allied with the Obàtálá group and had their influence diminished by queen Moremi, this group is postulated to be related to the ancient Igbo-Ukwu bronze casters of the Nri kingdom in south-eastern Nigeria that also had a similar but older concept of divine kingship as Ife as well as an equally older naturalist bronze-casting art tradition from which Ife derived some of its motifs for displaying royal regalia.
"
I don't think the "Igbo" people here are in any way related to the current day Igbo people. Your source is not a Nigerian and it's very very easy for outsiders to mix them up.
i understand there's some considerable debate on whether the 'igbo' group in the traditional history of ife's classical period are related to the modern igbo, i think the basis for suzanne's theory linking the two is partly based on the stylistic similarities between the art of ife and igbo ukwu; since she's primarily focused on art history, and given that it was the only major bronze casting society that was older and contemprenous with Ife in the region at the time the latter's art tradition emerged.
she based this on the presence of similar motifs in ife and igbo ukwu art (the facial marks, janus figure vomiting an axe, equestrian staffs, bird figures with snake wings, animals with royal regalia, etc) , as well as the discovery of ife glass beads at igbo ukwu sites. She also cites similar arguments made by Nigerian historians like Ade Obayemi, Ikem Okoye and Titi Euba, who argue for the presence of igbo-groups among the diverse groups that made up classical ife's population, highlighting shared ritual centers like the Iwinrın Grove, which is also known as “Igbo Igbo (the Igbo Grove), and the Esinmirin Stream (where Ife Queen Moremi made her offering after unmasking the Igbo) is called Omi Igbo (the Igbo water [Esinmirin omi Igbo]).”
It should ofcurse be noted that ethnicities are a highly fluid social concept, so we have no firm reason to assume our modern understanding of "igbo" or "yoruba" corresponds with what existed in the 8th-15th century when these artworks were being made, we can only use modern groups and their associated languages in the places where these artworks were found as proxies for describing the populations of these old sites which must have been heterogenous, just like their modern sucessors. (This is also something she acknowledges)
we are afterall, dealing with oral histories recorded in the early 20th century, and while these may indeed preserve early historical records fairly well, they could also be altered to reflect changes in social organisation and identity, which would explain the use of modern social identities in significantly older historical narratives
some could consider all this evidence as circumstancial, and Suzanne acknowledges that the identity of Ife's igbo population is still a matter of lively debate, but her arguments should probably not be dismissed outright for now. (the link between ife and the edo of benin for example, is equally tenous and not well recorded but the similarities of both society's art traditions are evident)
Hmmmm. Interesting.
I'm very sure the modern day Igbo would rankle at the suggestion that Igbo Ukwu originated from Ife 🤣🤣